Hamburg Steinway vs New York Steinway
Sometimes customers inquire about the differences between Steinways made in Hamburg, Germany and those made in New York, USA.
One Website visitor pointed out a difference in finish:
“… the New York finish is a nitrocellulose lacquer finish and the Hamburg finish is an MEKP initiated/cobalt promoted Polyester.”
On an Internet piano form I ran across this post by someone who goes by the name “Pianobroker” on February 20th:
Upon receiving my brand spanking new Hamburg Steinway B & A. I gotta say these make new N.Y. Steinways look and sound quite inferior.The attention to detail is night and day between the two. The obvious cosmetic differences that I see that aren’t acknowledged on the technical data Steinway website are;
Intense prep as for prepping the harp prior to guilding.
Industrial chrome plated duplex scale bars,plate bolts and nose bolt caps
Meticulous prep as for the polyester finish(extra thick)Meticulous fit as for case parts
Aluminum trap work levels
Aluminum pedal lyre plate
Sostenuto installed on the belly rail
Perfect string coils
#1 tuning pins (European standard)
Complete Renner action stack including back checks,let off buttons etc.
Recessed cheek block screws
Under carriage of piano painted in black satin polyester
Precision soundboard fit. No need for quarteround on the straight side.
Allenhead screw security leg locks
Robust brass casters
Triple lid prop in black satin polyester
Mahogany veneered inner rim
Adjustable music desk /leather trim
Superior German plastic keytops
Attention to detail is overwhelming. The soundboard,beams,keybed from underneath manufacture are performed with meticulous precision. Maybe later with more time and assistance.I can assess the structural and scale differences between the two.
As for sound I gotta say the Hamburg Steinways are well worth the extra premium if $ is no object and the sound floats your boat No lack of power,sustain or dynamic response in either Hamburg mdl.In some respects the Hamburg Steinway is moving toward a higher automotive standard.
From the New York Times:
Steinways With German Accents; Pianos Made in Queens Have Cousins in Hamburg
By JAMES BARRON
Published: August 27, 2003
In 1850, when Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg left for New York and changed his name to Henry E. Steinway, four of his five sons immigrated with him.
The fifth, C. F. Theodor Steinway, stayed behind. He hated America — ”that land of iniquity” with its unbearable weather and uncouth concertgoers. So when his father and brothers started a piano company in New York, Theodor, the technical genius of the family, sent his ideas for improving the instruments via trans-Atlantic mail.
He moved to New York in 1865, but went back to Germany regularly until 1880, when he went back for good. He opened the company’s second plant here.
It was part laboratory, part factory. While he tinkered with new sounding boards and rims, workers manufactured pianos according to the same designs used at the factory in Astoria, Queens — instruments that, because of his innovations, gave Steinways the big, bright sound that defined the modern piano.
Steinway & Sons still makes pianos here. But they are a bit different from their American cousins. Many pianists maintain that Hamburg Steinways tend to sound lusher, warmer and somehow smaller than Steinways from New York.
So there is not one Steinway sound, but two.
When concert grand No. K0862 was being trimmed in the casemaking department of the factory in Queens in June, it took on characteristics that marked it as a New Yorker forever. What would be different if it were being made in Germany? What does the Hamburg factory do differently?
The factory looks like the one in Queens — a cluster of red-brick buildings. But the Hamburg factory — whose windows were blown out in an Allied bombing raid during World War II — today is smaller, brighter and cleaner. It also continues C. F. Theodor’s laboratory tradition. Much of the precision cutting and drilling machinery installed in the Astoria plant was tried in Hamburg first.
For years, especially when Steinway was owned by CBS in the 1970’s and 1980’s, the company resisted acknowledging that New York Steinways and Hamburg Steinways were different. ”Under the reign of CBS,” said Werner Husmann, a vice president who has worked for Steinway in Hamburg for 35 years, ”we had to say we’re the same.” Now, seven years after new owners took the company public, ”at least it’s allowed that we sound different,” Mr. Husmann said.
There are pianists who prefer a Hamburg Steinway. The workmanship is better, they maintain. ”It’s like an upgraded American Steinway, and there’s nothing to sneeze at in the American Steinway,” said the pianist and arranger Wally Harper. Hamburg Steinways, he said, ‘’seem to be more sensitive and have a wider range of dynamics.”
But the pianist Jeffrey Siegel said the difference was more in the touch than in the sound. ”I’m not so sure anymore that one can generalize about the tonal quality,” he said.
Emanuel Ax said that Hamburg Steinways were once ”more consistent” than New York Steinways. Now, like Mr. Siegel, he said the differences have more to do with individual instruments than with where they were made.
”My impression is the whole operation has become more connected in the last few years,” Mr. Ax said. ”I really like it, because from my point of view, I think we’re starting to get the best of both worlds.”
Alfred Brendel performs on a Hamburg Steinway in Europe and a New York Steinway in America — and sends Steinway executives handwritten critiques of both, they say. So, some Steinways are delightful and some can be disappointing, no matter which factory they come from.
An Ocean Apart, Yet Close
They may still sound different, but Steinway officials say New York Steinways and Hamburg Steinways are more similar than they have ever been. High-level managers from the Queens factory say they confer with their Hamburg counterparts more often than ever. That closeness is recent, though. The chief technician at the Hamburg factory, Gerde Fründ, has worked there since 1958. But not until four years ago did the company pay his way to Queens so he could meet his American counterparts.
Bruce A. Stevens, the president of Steinway & Sons, says he is not worried that some customers may find Hamburg Steinways superior to New York Steinways. ”When people ask which is the better piano, I say, ‘We have the No. 1 and the No. 2,’ ” he said, without specifying which he considers first and which second.
Mr. Husmann added, ”We are in a position to provide people with the piano they like.”
Hamburg Steinways cost more in the United States than New York Steinways. A Hamburg concert grand sells for about $97,800, roughly $5,000 more than a comparable New York Steinway like No. K0862. ”What we try to do is keep it on parity,” said Frank M. Mazurco, Steinway’s executive vice president, ”because the exchange rate plays games with products like this.”
Sharp Corners, or Rounded?
One difference between a New York Steinway and a Hamburg Steinway is recognizable from the outside: the shape of the arms, the part of the case at either end of the keyboard.
On a New York Steinway, the curve of the arm ends in a sharp corner — a Sheraton arm, named for Thomas Sheraton, the 18th-century furniture designer. On a Hamburg Steinway, the edge is rounded.
Once, New York Steinways had rounded arms, too. Mr. Mazurco says the New York factory switched to the Sheraton arm around 1910. ”Obviously, somebody said, ‘Guys, furniture styles have changed, we need to adapt,’ ” he said. ”New York adapted. In Hamburg, they said, ‘That’s not happening in Europe.’ They kept the design the way it was. And later, when the Japanese entered the market, they started with rounded arms, like Europe. It’s New York that’s standing unique in the architecture.”
Cutting the arms gives a piano an unmistakable identity. The laminated rim of No. K0862 got its New York look on a sunny morning in June, a couple of weeks after it was wheeled out of the hot, dry room where it had spent 69 days aging so it would never pop out of shape.
The cutting was done with a machine operated by Louis Auguste, who was born near Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic and arrived in this country in 1970. He was hired at Steinway five years later.
”My father was a cabinetmaker,” he said after guiding the noisy, fast-moving blade around the edge of the rim. ”My grandfather was a cabinetmaker. My girlfriend is a cabinetmaker. I’ve been doing this since I was 7.”
Since late last year, his counterpart in Hamburg has been a machine. The rounded arms of Hamburg Steinways are now shaped by a robotic device that does its work alone: once the workers have moved the rim into place on a cutting table, they step outside and shut the door.
On a Tuesday morning a couple of weeks after Mr. Auguste cut the arms on No. K0862, two of his bosses stood in the Hamburg plant, watching through a plastic window and marveling at the speed and precision of the machine. ”This is a more refined process,” said Andrew Horbachevsky, the manufacturing director of the Queens plant. ”We’re pretty primitive.”
Will a similar machine be coming soon to Mr. Auguste’s corner of the factory? ”Whether we go in with this is a question,” Mr. Horbachevsky said. ”But you’ve got to be impressed.”
The arms are not the only clue that a Steinway was made in New York or Hamburg. Just inside the lid is another marker.
The Hamburg factory still uses reddish African mahogany for one layer of the rim, the layer that ends up next to the piano’s sounding board and the cast iron plate that holds the strings. In New York Steinways, that last layer has long been made of maple and spray-painted black with the rest of the case. The mahogany is ”a marketing question,” Mr. Husmann said.
Other differences between the way No. K0862 is being made and the way Hamburg Steinways are made became clear during two days at the Hamburg plant.
The first big step in the making of a piano — bending the rim — took the same amount of time here as in Astoria: 14 minutes. But in Hamburg the job was done by three workers, plus a foreman. In Astoria, it takes six or seven, plus a foreman.
The managers of the Hamburg factory said they did not need as large a crew because, after gluing the strips of wood together, their workers load the slabs onto carts and roll them to the rim-bending machine. In Queens, the workers carry the 340-pound slabs from the gluing machine to the rim-bending device.
”You don’t need those big guys carrying it around,” Mr. Husmann said.
And where the Queens rim-benders use long-handled levers to shove the rim wood into place, members of the Hamburg team wheel in a machine with a hydraulic arm that did some of the work without grunting, groaning or sweating.
Are human hands better than hydraulic arms when it comes to driving wood into place? ”We hear people talking,” Mr. Husmann said. ” ‘Steinway hates machines.’ ‘Steinway loves machines.’ ‘What is your relationship to machines?’ It’s simple. A machine has to provide an increase in quality. We are not the people who believe we can do everything with machines. We do 85 percent by hand.”
Questions of Supply
Like the Queens factory, Hamburg has a lumberyard where wood sits, aging.
The Hamburg factory uses much of the same wood as the Queens factory — maple from the Pacific Northwest for the rims, spruce from Alaska for the sounding boards. The strips that will be glued together in Hamburg are cut, packed and shipped in Queens.
Until the 1990’s, Hamburg used European beech in the rims and Bavarian spruce in the sounding boards. Both became scarce, and Steinway officials say they decided that a reliable supply mattered more than the price. The maple costs a third more than the beech did, Mr. Husmann said.
The cast-iron plates now come from the same Ohio foundry as the plates that go into New York Steinways. The German platemaker that the Hamburg factory once relied on — which also made plumbing pipes — went bankrupt, Mr. Husmann said.
Hammers and Felt
One arm is pointed, the other is curved. One inner rim is brown, the other black. Two more major differences between a New York Steinway like No. K0862 and a Hamburg Steinway are deeper inside.
One is the action — the sensitive, see-saw mechanism inside the piano that drives a hammer toward its string when a pianist hits a key. The action is as complicated as a Rube Goldberg machine, and exists to do one crucial job: translate the touch of the pianist into motion. It converts the delicateness of Debussy or the explosiveness of Shostakovich into what the audience hears.
The other difference, Steinway says, is the hammers themselves.
On a New York Steinway, the action and the hammers are made at the factory by Steinway workers. On a Hamburg Steinway, both parts are bought from subcontractors who follow Steinway’s specifications. (Mr. Mazurco, the executive vice president, says the union contract that covers the New York plant does not dictate staffing levels.)
Pianists who prefer Hamburg Steinways, like Wally Harper, maintain that their action is more responsive than the action in New York Steinways. Steinway says the difference in the hammers matters more.
In Hamburg, Steinway uses hammers with hard felt, and the workers make them softer with needles and sandpaper. In New York, Steinway uses hammers with softer felt, and the workers make them harder by painting a gooey solution onto the head of each hammer. The solution, lacquer and lacquer thinners, adds strength, and that increases the volume and brightness of the sound.
”This is a process that takes longer,” Mr. Husmann said. ”We shape it to the right shape, voice it, listen to it.”
In a soundproof room here at the Hamburg factory, Erich Lagemann spends seven hours a day sanding the tops of hammers to just the right shape. Then he slides the action into the piano, playing a few chords and then sliding it out for more work. It is more or less what Mr. Fründ, the chief technician, does if he does not like the sound or the touch after each piano has gone through seven tunings.
”The fit and finish, I think, is a little better here,” he said.
He paused. He did not want that to sound like a put-down of New York Steinways or the workers who make them. The only thing that matters, he said, is the final result, the sound.
”New York is O.K.,” he said, ”and this is O.K.”
Invention for 900 Hands
It is something of a mystery. The same 450 workers bend and shape the wood the same way. The sounding boards are made to the same specifications. The strings and pins, hammers and keys — there should be no variation.
Yet every piano that Steinway & Sons produces has a unique sound. Some are modest, some monumental. And no one knows exactly why.
Basic Piano Care ~ Where Do I Begin?
From the Piano Technicians Guild:
A Lifetime Of Enjoyment
A piano brings a lifetime of enjoyment to you and your family. As you might expect with any investment of this size, a piano requires periodic servicing to provide outstanding performance year after year. But to understand what maintenance is required, it’s important to understand the nature of the piano.
The beautiful, natural sound of a piano is due to the remarkable blending of such materials as wood, metal, buckskin, and wool. Together they create a uniquely timeless sound that no other instrument in the world can duplicate. While electronic synthesizers may approximate the sound of an acoustic piano, they cannot approach the true beauty of the real thing.
Pianos are peculiar in the sense the more often they are tuned, the longer they stay in tune. And conversely, the less often they’re tuned, the faster they go out of tune. Thus a piano that’s not been tuned for many years will usually not hold the first tuning as long as a piano that has been tuned on a regular basis.
Schedule Your Piano Tuner Regularly
Keep your piano in tune so you can enjoy the full potential of your piano. ( Piano Manufacturers Recomendations ) It was specifically designed to be tuned to the international pitch standard of A-440 cycles per second. Your piano will sound its best and give you and your family the most pleasure when it is tuned regularly and kept in proper playing condition.
Protect Your Piano From Dust
Keep your piano clean. Keep the keyboard covered when not in use to prevent dust from accumulating. Clean keys by occasionally wiping them with a damp cloth and drying them immediately. If accumulated debris cannot be removed with a damp cloth, try wiping the cloth on a bar of mild soap or moisten with dishwasher detergent before wiping. Do not use chemicals or solvents to clean piano keys. Call a qualified piano technician to remove anything from the keys you cannot wipe away.
How Does Humidity Affect My Piano?
Topic Series Notes: Piano Environment
A good understanding of how humidity relates to the health of your piano has the potential of adding years of life to your piano. I believe every piano owner would benefit from reading these short articles.
Humidity Swings And Piano Parts
Everything in a piano is either made of wood or depends on wooden parts to function. Wet humid conditions swell and warps wooden parts and dry parched conditions shrinks and cracks wooden piano parts.
While high humidity badly affects a piano and low humidity badly affects a piano, even worse is swinging back and forth, which is what we have in Kansas City ~ hot humid summers and cold dry winters.
Dryness causes wood to crack, which is the most serious damage, and many times those cracks would never develop, without first going through a period of damp humid conditions.
Soundboard Pressure Ridges
Let’s take the soundboard for example:
The soundboard already has a great deal of pressure exerted on it and wet humid conditions cause it to swell, pushing the wood grain with great force the soundboard sometimes develops a “pressure ridge”. On grand pianos, you can see these pressure ridges if you lower your eye-sight to just above level with the soundboard ~ to the point where the light glares off the soundboard. Once you spot a “pressure ridge” you can run your finger across the ridge and feel it under your finger.
At this point the pressure ridge is not considered a crack and no piano manufacturer will warranty a “pressure ridge”, yet if the piano goes through a period of dryness, this is where the crack will most likely develop. “Pressure ridges” can be seen on many pianos still sitting on the dealer’s showroom floor. This is one more, of the many reasons why you should never, never, never buy a piano without having a professional piano tuner examine the piano before you buy.
Soundboard cracks usually do not cause much of a problem to the tone and overall sound of your piano unless the soundboard ribs loosen and begin to buzz and rattle. Unless there is a rattle or buzz the soundboard will still perform. (For more information on why soundboard cracks do little to harm piano tone – see this Steinway technical.)
Humidity Swings And The Piano Pinblock
Piano Pinblock
A more serious problem that may develop as a result of “humidity swings” is pin-block damage. The pinblock is what holds the tuning pins. The quality and condition of the pinblock determines the tightness of tuning pins and is one of the most important factors in tuning stability. For many manufacturers, including Steinway, the minimum specification allowed for tuning pin tightness, to pass inspection and exit the factory is only 50 inch pounds. While technicians, like myself, would like all new pianos to measure 75 to 85 inch pounds many leaves the factory with much less.
What This Means For The Piano Owner?
A piano is still tunable at 50 to 60 inch pounds, but once the pinblock loosens to the point the tightness of the tuning pins only measures 25 to 30 inch pounds, we generally consider that piano no longer a tunable piano. After a piano has gone through a few seasonal changes, it is not uncommon for the pinblock to loosen five to ten inch pounds in the first five years of service. To avoid getting stuck with one of those 50 inch pound pianos, never, never, never buy a piano without a professional piano tuner appraising the quality of the piano before you buy.
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- Piano Pinblock
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- Dry Piano Pinblock Conditions
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- Moist Piano Pinblock Conditions
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- Rusted Piano Tuning Pins and Piano Strings
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- Piano Pinblock Damage (Tuning Pins Removed)
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- Rusted Piano String Damage
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- Piano Bridge ~ Dry Conditions
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- Piano Bridge ~ Moist Conditions
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- Cracked Piano Soundboard
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- Sluggish Piano Action Resulting From High Humidity
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- Sticking Piano Keys Caused From Too Much Moisture ~ Humidity
Note: About the above “Piano Bridge” pictures ~ The piano soundboard is designed to have a crown. The image for “Dry Conditions” shows a flat soundboard which is not accurate. In dry conditions I am sure the soundboard flattens more than it should but not completely flat. The image that shows “Moist Conditions” is demonstrating too much crown ~ which is what happens in moist conditions.
What Type Of Piano Do I Own?
Topic Series Notes: Piano Value
The most popular article in this series is “Which Piano Brand is Best?” ~ the most well written and best thought out article “What is my piano worth?”, used by permission, was written by Bob Conrad of Conrad Piano Services ~ a piano owners guide to determine the value of your piano.
Do you know what type of piano you own?
When a new customer calls to schedule a piano tuning, I usually ask them what type of piano they own. While no one should ever be embarrassed because they do not know their type of piano, I put together this article to assist piano owners discover what type of piano they own. It is not an ironclad rule, but a general guide to help customers and piano owners discover their type of piano.
The piano comes in many different styles, designs, shapes and sizes and a piano tuner has to learn to service them all. Pianos have two basic categories: the vertical and horizontal pianos.
Vertical Pianos – They are called vertical pianos because of their height and the position of the strings. The height of this kind of piano range from 36 to 60 inches. There are 4 types:
 Spinet Piano ~ 36" to 39"
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 Console ~ 40" to 43"
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 Studio ~ 44" to 48"
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 Upright ~ 49" to 60"
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Grand Pianos – Also known as horizontal pianos. They are called horizontal pianos because of their length and the placement of their strings. There are 4 basic types:
 Petite Grand ~ 4'5" to 5'4"
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 Baby Grand ~ 5'6" to 6'7"
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 Semi-Concert Grand ~ 6'8" to 7'6"
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 Concert Grand ~ 9' or longer
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 Fazioli Grand ~ 10' 1/25 inches
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 Challen ~ 11'8"
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Which Piano Brand Is Best?
Topic Series Notes: Piano Value
The most popular article in this series is “Which Piano Brand is Best?” ~ the most well written and best thought out article “What is my piano worth?”, used by permission, was written by Bob Conrad of Conrad Piano Services ~ a piano owners guide to determine the value of your piano.
Which piano brand ~ manufacturer is best?
There are many different opinions about piano quality. In the end, the best piano is the one the customer gets the most pleasure – both in short and long term. Along the same thought, it depends somewhat on what the customer likes. Example: I have said before, if you like a big bass then you need to buy either a Bösendorfer or Baldwin since they have the biggest bass section. However, some would say their bass section swallows up the rest of the piano. If you like a bright sound then you need to go with a Yamaha or other bright pianos on the market.
Performing artists prefer Steinway
Steinway pianos can be voiced to be either very bright or mellow, while other bright pianos start to sound muffled if you voice them too far towards mellow tone. Steinway is top of the list for performing artists and there are many reasons performing artists prefer Steinway. That being said, Steinway gets a lot out of their name and allows their pianos to leave the factory in questionable shape when it comes to regulation and adjustment. I have also seen brand new Steinway pianos, still on the dealers floor with questionable pinblocks, etc.
Yamaha easiest to service
When I started in the piano tuning business, someone who was a big Yamaha fan, gave me their opinion the best pianos where the ones easiest to work on (an opinion that I do not necessarily agree to). Their thought was Yamaha, unlike many other well know brands, has taken the time when designing their pianos to think about the technician – that was smart. Yamaha also pays extra for all new Yamaha pianos sold to have their “preventative maintenance program” known as the “Yamaha service bond” included in the new piano service.
I do not want to be misunderstood in my next statement so let me say up front that I too like Yamaha pianos, however, if you wonder why, when asking technicians about recommendations of piano brands, that Yamaha is one of the first mentioned brands – there is the fact ~ technicians get paid more (because of the Yamaha Service Bond) to work on the easiest piano made to service – Yamaha was very smart in their marketing.
Ask your piano tuner / technician
Good technicians, and can make any brand sound like a dream piano of a lifetime by talking up their strong points or make them sound like a huge gamble – all without being dishonest, because technicians know the strong and weak points in all brands they service. So make sure you have a piano tuner / technician you trust when asking for advice about piano brands.
The most important thing when buying a new piano is to have a trusted piano tuner / technician assess the piano before you buy. If possible, it is best to have more than one piano picked out so he can inform you which one he likes best.
List of Piano Brands and Manufacturers
How Old Is My Piano?
Topic Series Notes: Piano Value
The most popular article in this series is “Which Piano Brand is Best?” ~ the most well written and best thought out article “What is my piano worth?”, used by permission, was written by Bob Conrad of Conrad Piano Services ~ a piano owners guide to determine the value of your piano.
Determine The Age of Your Piano Online
Before I can determine the age of your piano I must have the pianos serial number. Look for the serial number in the areas marked with the large red “S”.
Where to look for piano serial number
Use this form for piano age request
How Do I Care For My Piano Finish?
The following is from the Piano Technicians Guild
Caring for your piano finish
Beautiful Steinway finish
The piano is unique among musical instruments because it also serves as fine furniture for the home. In fact, the term “piano finish” has traditionally been used to describe the highest standards in wood finishing. Properly maintaining that fine finish will enhance your home’s decor and preserve the value of your piano.
Basic finish care
Modern Pianos are finished with a variety of materials, from traditional lacquer to modern polyurethanes and polyester resins. Whatever the material, a piano finish is designed to protect the wood from dirt and liquid spills, reduce the damaging effects of humidity changes, and — in the case of clear finishes — enhance the beauty of the wood.
Modern finishes are designed to do their job without the additional aid of polishes or waxes. In most cases, a piano finish is best maintained by simply keeping it clean and avoiding exposure to direct sunlight, extremes of temperature and humidity, and abrasion.
Avoiding finish damage.
Your piano’s cabinet, like all woodwork, is subject to expansion and contraction with humidity changes. Excessive wood movement can eventually cause the finish to develop tiny cracks and even separate from the wood. Moderating the temperature and humidity swings around the piano will help to preserve its finish as well as its overall structure and tuning stability.
Locate the piano in a room with a fairly even temperature, away from drafts, dampness, and heat sources. ALWAYS AVOID DIRECT SUNLIGHT — it will age the finish prematurely and cause color fading.
To prevent scratches, never set objects on your piano without a soft cloth or felt pad. Never place plants or drinks on a piano, because spillage and condensation can cause major damage.
Dusting your piano
Dust is very abrasive, and can scratch the finish if wiped off with a dry cloth. To avoid scratching, dust the piano lightly with a feather duster. Alternatively, wipe lightly with a soft damp cloth to pick up the dust, followed immediately with a dry cloth. The cloths should be soft cotton such as flannel, because coarse or synthetic fabrics can scratch some finishes. Wring out the damp cloth thoroughly so it leaves no visible moisture on the surface.
To avoid creating swirl marks, always wipe with long straight strokes rather than circular motions. Wipe with the grain for natural wood finishes, or in the direction of the existing sheen pattern for solid-color satin finishes.
Because some exposed parts inside your piano are fragile, it’s best to let your technician clean these areas.
Avoid furniture polish
Avoid furniture polish on your piano
Before using polish on your piano, be sure it is actually necessary and beneficial. In general, most manufacturers recommend against using polishes because of the potential for damage to the finish and contamination of other parts of the instrument.
Common household products such as “lemon oil” or inexpensive “furniture polish” should be avoided. Despite the labels’ claims that they “protect” the finish or “feed” the wood, they offer no protection from scratching and can actually soften the finish if over-used. Worse, they often contain silicones and oils that contaminate the wood, complicating future refinishing or repairs. Silicone is especially dangerous because of its tendency to spread within the piano, sometimes causing extensive internal damage. Avoid aerosol products altogether since the over-spray can contaminate piano strings, tuning pins and action parts.
Steinway piano polish
An appropriate polish can help to restore luster to a dulled finish or reduce the tendency of some finishes to show fingerprints. However, it should be applied sparingly and infrequently, and all excess should be wiped clean with a soft dry cloth so no visible film remains. To prevent scratching, always dust before polishing. Specific recommendations follow.
Cleaning Your Keys
Piano keys eventually become soiled with accumulated oil and dirt from fingers. To clean your white keys, use a soft cloth dampened with water and a small amount of mild soap. Avoid solvents. Make sure the cloth is thoroughly wrung out, and wipe the keys back-to-front rather than side-to-side, so excess moisture and dirt will not seep down the sides of the keys. Clean only a few keys at a time drying immediately with a clean cloth.
Ivory keys are porous, and excessive moisture can penetrate and loosen their glue joints. Also, a dirty or brightly colored cleaning cloth can transfer stains into the ivory.
Clean sharps in the same manner, but use a separate cloth for painted wooden sharps to avoid black stains on the white keys.
Finish Care Steps
- Locate your piano to avoid direct sunlight as well as excessive temperature and humidity changes.
- To avoid scratching, always remove dust first with a damp cloth or feather duster before wiping with a dry cloth.
- Never place drinks, plants, etc. on the finish.
- Avoid placing vinyl or rubber in contact with the piano.
- Make sure that piano lamps, etc. have a felt-padded base.
- Avoid touching piano strings with fingers or damp cloths.
- Delicate parts inside your piano should be cleaned only by your technician.
- Use polish sparingly, if at all.
- Avoid aerosol products.
- Read labels carefully, and avoid any product containing silicone.
- Before playing, always wash your hands to prevent staining the sides and tops of the keys.
Questions and Answers
Please feel free to ask whatever you like below. For private questions use the “Contact” form on the top navigation bar, otherwise use the comment area below to enter your piano question.
Thank You!
(Please note, this is not for piano technicians or people wanting to learn the piano tuning business but rather a place for customers and / or potential customers to ask questions about piano care or service related issues.)
What is my piano worth?
Topic Series Notes: Piano Value
The most popular article in this series is “Which Piano Brand is Best?” ~ the most well written and best thought out article “What is my piano worth?”, used by permission, was written by Bob Conrad of Conrad Piano Services ~ a piano owners guide to determine the value of your piano.
The following is used by permission from Conrad Piano Services
What is my piano worth?
Two pianos of the same make and model, made the same day at the same factory, can have very different values in a relatively short time resulting from a number of factors.
I do not buy and sell pianos. I have always thought buying and selling pianos, while at the same time selling piano services, would constitute a conflict of interests. My goal as a piano service professional is to be as honest, forthright, and objective as possible with the piano owner regarding the condition of their piano.
There are basically 3 levels of pricing for a specific piano at any particular time.
- Retail value: a piano dealer’s price if the piano was in their store.
- Wholesale value: the price a piano dealer would pay for the piano if the dealer were going to buy it.
- Individual seller’s value: the price you or I may be able to obtain by advertising a piano in the paper, listing it on line, or leaving ‘For Sale’ signs on bulletin boards at churches, offices, etc.
The first step is to call your piano tuner / technician.
The piano owner should have been having the piano serviced regularly or at least had it tuned sometime in the past. The piano tuner who has serviced it may know the piano and should be your first call. Your regular piano tuner could have some helpful/useful information about your piano.
Ask the piano tuner if they know of any significant problems (delaminations, cracks, loose pins, design, etc) that would take your piano out of the mainstream of similar pianos or if it has any special features (an upgraded or special cabinet, finish, autograph, some other feature, or ‘story’) that puts it above the mainstream of other similar pianos.
Ask your tuner the brand and model (spinet, console, consolette, studio, upright, grand, etc.) of your piano. Your tuner may not have the serial number in his records, but may be able to help you locate it on your piano. The age of the piano can be determined by the serial number.
( Online piano age request form can be found here )
You will want to know the size of your grand piano in feet and inches rather than ‘baby’ or ‘large’ or ‘living room” size. (Grand piano size is measured from the very ‘front’ of the piano – the piece of wood just below the keys – to the farthest point on the ‘tail’ end of the lid).
Your tuner should be able to tell you how your piano compares to others regarding the overall condition of the case, wear and tear on parts, etc. and give you an idea as to selling price. But try to remember what you paid for it. What you paid for it can often be a good starting point. Remember when you purchased it? The salesman had to convince you to pay what you paid for it. If you can get close to what you paid for it now you are doing well. (Try getting your purchase price back by selling your refrigerator, or your sofa, the golf clubs, the boat, or the Mercedes.)
If you have a piano model that is still in production, and the price of the new ones have gone up, this does not mean your piano has necessarily appreciated in value. The fact that pianos like yours are still in production is worth more than the increase in price. Age does not make a piano more valuable.
If you don’t have a tuner (or can’t remember who tuned it last, lost his number, etc.) maybe you have a friend or relative who has worked with a tuner they know and trust. Call them. Or, you can call me. I would be happy to talk with you. However, the only way an experienced piano tuner / technician can really give you an accurate appraisal is to take a look at the piano inside and out, and perhaps tune it.
Just make sure the piano technicians you talk to – or listen to – have sufficient piano service experience and piano judgment that you will be able to respect. Music teachers, piano teachers and piano salesmen, though knowledgeable, are generally not skilled in the technical aspects of piano service and maintenance. So even though they are professionals at what they do and will be someone to talk to, make certain you talk to an experienced piano service professional as well.
The 2nd step is to visit your local piano dealers.
The next step in determining the value of your piano is to visit your local piano store and look at used pianos about the same size, age, brand, model, cabinet style and finish as yours. You really don’t want to omit this step. Even though you will not find an exact match to your piano, if you look at enough used pianos, you should get a general idea as to what dealers are asking for a good used piano similar to yours.
Keep in mind dealers will be able to get considerably more for a good used piano than you or I ever could selling them out of our home. But they should get more. Before selling the piano, the dealer will have already moved the piano to their store, and likely done any necessary cleaning, fixing, repairing, tuning and service. More often than not a store warranty is included with the piano – which has value and can be an appealing safety net for used piano buyers. The dealer can also deliver the piano, take a trade-in and even help buyers with financing. They also advertise on a regular basis, and have knowledgeable piano sales professionals to assist buyers in their purchase before, during, and after the sale. Dealers generally provide an in-home tuning after the piano has been delivered to the new owner.
The dealer may even have a consignment plan you might want to investigate- they may be able to sell your piano for you. They may be able to sell it more quickly and with less aggravation than doing it on your own. They have walk-in traffic – people go there looking for pianos. You may even end up with a higher price too. Maybe you will see another piano or an electric keyboard you might want to own. Maybe they would take your piano on trade for it.
You might also want to ask the dealer what he thinks your piano is worth, but there is where he becomes conflicted. If you want to know for insurance purposes, he may be able to talk replacement costs with you. But once you ask them about selling your piano, you become competition. After all, they are in the business of selling pianos too, and they are the professionals. (The better question would be to ask him how much he would give you for your piano.) Because they are professional, they should be helpful and courteous
Another thing to do while visiting the dealer is to see what he has for sale in the same price range you are thinking your piano is worth. Remember, the dealer has all sorts of added values (described above) which are included in the price of his pianos. A visit to your local dealers will be a very informative experience when it comes to determining the value of your piano.
The wholesale ‘value’ is the value the piano store pays for their pianos.
Generally, you and I cannot buy pianos at the wholesale level, even though we sometimes think we can. More often than not, there are good reasons why pianos are sometimes given away. “Nothing” is generally what they are worth – if not less.
You really should call an experienced piano tuner BEFORE accepting or picking up a ‘freebie’ piano. I can’t tell you how many people have called me after they have spent money and time (and friends who will no longer speak to them) because they lugged a freebie piano home from a friend’s, relative’s, friend of a relative’s, relative of a friend’s, off the street, or out of the basement of a building or church, etc.
You may think you are getting the deal of the century, and maybe you are, but the odds are probably millions-to-one against. Before doing this, call me or call someone else who may be able to talk sense to you. The phone call could save you hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
The best economy is quality, not junk. The last thing you want to do is end up with a piano that will be a constant service headache, will never sound right, will be an eyesore in your home, and not really worth fixing even if it could be fixed.
Even if the exterior case is something you think is special, if the inside is full of broken rusted strings, cracked bridges, loose tuning pins, failing glue joints, brass flanges, etc., let it go. More often than not, before the piano gets put out on the street or is given away, all the other avenues of getting rid of it have been tried. No one likes having to pay to get an old worthless piano hauled off. If the dealers don’t think the piano has value, you shouldn’t either.
The value of your piano will be somewhere between the wholesale price and the retail price.
Another consideration in determining the value of your piano is your local piano ‘market’. Different parts of the country will have different figures. Remember, I am NOT a piano dealer. Only the dealers know what their costs are, and with prices changing all the time, only they know what their retail prices of new and used pianos are at any given time.
After you have talked to your tuner, gone to some local dealers and review ‘pianos for sale’ in the classified section of the newspaper and maybe even gone to see a few, you will have a fairly good idea as to what your piano may be worth in your area.
I hope you have found this read helpful. Once you start the process you may find many varied opinions. But if you keep at it, do your homework and try to find knowledgeable professionals in the piano business who will talk with you, the smoke will eventually clear and you will end up with a reasonably good idea as to what your piano is worth.
After you have done your homework you will still be subject to whatever the demand or market is at the time you try to sell it. In the end, your piano is worth what someone else will pay for it.
I want to thank Bob Conrad for his fine article ( What’s my piano worth? ) used by permission above.